Miranda: The other thing that was really special at Apple that I've never seen duplicated was that they had a feeling for art. They knew the importance of marketing like no company ever until then, they had incredibly great graphic artists and graphic designers, their identity was fabulous, they had-- The production values of the books were fabulous, so they attracted artists who could write, because we all liked to see our work looking so good. That was something unique, totally unique that they did. They had an understanding of marketing and the art side of things, and how that carries part of the message.
Pang: Within Apple there were lots of musicians-- yourself obviously, and Jef Raskin worked as a conductor. It seems there was a dual artistic-technical identity for many people there.
Miranda: I'm also a student of culture, in business, in the workplace like you and I asked people, and I would check it out, because the people part was always the most interesting to me. There were an enormous number of people who were artists and musicians there. I mean, almost, it was the norm. Everybody there-- there were bands who came out of there, they were everyone, many people were into music, a lot of people were very cutting-edge, a lot of people were Deadheads, a lot of people were into rock, people were into classical, chamber music, opera, but almost anybody you would sit down with you would find out they were either an artist, or more likely a musician. There were an enormous number of musicians there. So I think that's very interesting, and you're right, it's very true. And many of us have gone on to more music later.
Pang: You were employee number 998. Was there any status that came with having a lower number?
Miranda: Yeah, I think so. Because in fact, I always tell people that number, 'cause there weren't that many people, by the time I got there, they were just hiring so fast, that right about that time, you couldn't keep track of people any more. A little bit after I got there, you still sort-of knew everybody and then it got bigger in a hurry. But yeah, I think there is a certain amount of...'cause people are always, other people will say that, I'm not the only one. You'll see somebody and they'll say, "Oh yeah, I was number 602." People are proud of it, 'cause at that point you had to have a certain vision to be there at that early time, and I always feel like I saw it and I knew and I went there. I still have the poem I wrote to get hired, in my file. And every once in a while I take it out and I look at it and I go, "Boy, those were the days."